Dr.OlympiaLiu: Obama323;Romney191

一剪梅发布于 2012-09-26 09:43 20 楼^#

      I disagree with you on the government's role. I do believe government has responsibility to setup a minimum safety net for orphans, elderly, disabled (mental or physical). As rich as America, it's a shame to leave these people perish/languish on their own or under the mercy of some voluntary charity. That's not a modern, civilized society should be. Even elephants wouldn't leave their crippled ones behind. We human beings should be better than elephants. The problem is we include too many people under our safety net, almost up to the 47%. That's obviously an abuse. We should tighten up the safety net coverage, and fix the tax loopholes/unfairness to the super rich. This way the losers spend less, the winners cough out more, so we middle class can get a real big break. Right ow, middle class are screwed both front and back and a t the verge of collasping.

Dr.OlympiaLiu 发布于 2012-09-26 06:50 19 楼^#

The current view of the 2012 presidential election. BARACK OBAMA   MITT ROMNEY   343    191 WASHINGTON -- Americans are more confident in the economy than they have been in seven months, an encouraging sign for President Barack Obama with six weeks left in the presidential race. A new survey of consumer confidence rose Tuesday (09/25/12) to its highest level since February on expectations that hiring will soon pick up. And a separate report showed home values rising steadily, signaling sustained improvement in housing. "This is like an opinion poll on the economy without the political parties attached," said John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics, a consulting firm. The confidence survey "says people are feeling better. If so, they are less likely to vote for change." The Conference Board's index of consumer confidence shot up in September. The jump surprised many economists because the most recent hiring and retail sales figures have been sluggish. The increased confidence could help explain recent polls that show Obama with a widening lead over Mitt Romney in some battleground states. The consumer confidence index is closely watched because consumer spending drives nearly 70 percent of economic activity. The index jumped from 61.3 for August to 70.3 for September. It remains well below 90, the level that is thought to signify a healthy economy. Economists point to some key reasons why consumers have grown more confident. Stocks are up: The Standard & Poor's 500 stock index has surged nearly 15 percent this year. Gas prices have leveled off after rising for several months. And the broad increase in home prices is likely giving would-be buyers more confidence. When prices rise, buyers don't worry so much that a home might lose value after they bought it. National home prices rose 1.2 percent in July compared with a year ago, according to the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller index released Tuesday. That was the second straight month in which year-over-year home prices have increased. Some economists question whether the higher level of confidence is sustainable. They've seen the index spike briefly before since the Great Recession ended more than three years ago. Some say confidence could be affected by negative campaign ads that focus on the economy. But others note that even a weak economy doesn't feel so bad to many consumers once it begins to make steady improvement. "The economy is perceived in relative rather than absolute terms," noted St. Louis University political scientist and pollster Ken Warren. Mark Vitner, a senior economist at Wells Fargo, suggests that former President Bill Clinton might have helped boost confidence with his rousing speech on Obama's behalf at the Democratic National Convention in early September. The Conference Board's consumer confidence survey was conducted Sept. 1-13. Clinton "rekindled memories of better economic times" and assured voters that the U.S. economy was on the right track, Vitner said. The rising home prices could also help Obama's prospects. Prices are rising in many large cities in swing states such as Florida, Colorado, Michigan and North Carolina. Prices have risen 3.6 percent in Tampa, Fla., in the past year, for example. And they're up 5.4 percent in Denver, 6.2 percent in Detroit and 2.2 percent in Charlotte, N.C. A Washington Post poll out Tuesday showed Obama leading Romney among likely voters in Ohio, 52 to 44 percent. The president also had a slight edge in Florida, 51 to 47 percent among those most likely to vote. Obama is also gaining the upper hand on which candidate is better able to handle the economy. Registered voters in Ohio preferred Obama on the economy by 50 percent to 43 percent, and in Florida by 49 percent to 45 percent.

Dr.OlympiaLiu 发布于 2012-09-26 06:28 18 楼^#

<h2 class="leadin" style="font-family: georgia; font-weight: normal; color: rgb(30, 31, 32); text-rendering: optimizelegibility; font-size: 18px; line-height: 22px; width: 730px; min-height: 60px; font-style: italic; ">The current view of the 2012 presidential election.</h2><div id="electoral-votes" style="margin-bottom: 40px; border: 0px; clear: both; height: 110px; width: 940px; color: rgb(30, 31, 32); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "><div class="big-head-row" style="border: 0px; width: 940px; height: 150px; "><div class="candidate obama" style="border: 0px; height: 95px; width: 320px; float: left; "><img alt="Barack Obama" height="95px" src="http://e.huffpost.com/elections/images/obama-head.png?fde55cf18dbfd230234ec58adf3b9900ab50630b" width="140px" style="border: 0px; max-width: 100%; vertical-align: middle; display: inline-block; height: 95px; float: left; "><div class="counts" style="margin-left: 6px; border: 0px; display: inline-block; height: 95px; width: 120px; float: left; "><h2 class="candidate-name" style="font-family: 'Open Sans Condensed', 'Arial Narrow', sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-rendering: optimizelegibility; font-size: 18px; line-height: 20px; text-transform: uppercase; ">BARACK OBAMA</h2><div class="electoral-vote-count democrat-blue" style="border: 0px; color: rgb(92, 107, 149); font-weight: bold; font-size: 54px; line-height: 58px; ">343</div><h5 class="electoral-vote-label democrat-blue" style="font-family: inherit; font-weight: normal; color: rgb(92, 107, 149); text-rendering: optimizelegibility; line-height: 14px; font-size: 12px; text-transform: uppercase; ">ELECTORAL VOTES</h5></div></div><div id="electoral-votes-needed" style="margin-top: 76px; margin-left: 471px; padding-left: 8px; border-width: 0px 0px 0px 2px; border-left-style: dotted; border-left-color: rgb(30, 31, 32); text-transform: uppercase; font-weight: bold; pointer-events: none; position: absolute; z-index: 99; height: 50px; "><div id="electoral-votes-needed-label" style="margin-top: -18px; margin-left: -130px; border: 0px; ">270 ELECTORAL VOTES NEEDED TO WIN</div></div><div class="candidate romney" style="margin-right: -6px; border: 0px; height: 95px; width: 320px; float: right; "><img alt="Mitt Romney" height="95px" src="http://e.huffpost.com/elections/images/romney-head.png?fde55cf18dbfd230234ec58adf3b9900ab50630b" width="140px" style="border: 0px; max-width: 100%; vertical-align: middle; display: inline-block; height: 95px; float: right; "><div class="counts" style="border: 0px; display: inline-block; height: 95px; width: 120px; float: right; "><h2 class="candidate-name" style="font-family: 'Open Sans Condensed', 'Arial Narrow', sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-rendering: optimizelegibility; font-size: 18px; line-height: 20px; text-transform: uppercase; float: right; ">MITT ROMNEY</h2> </div></div></div></div>

游客 IP:12.250.185.* 发布于 2012-09-26 05:56 17 楼^#

to 一剪梅, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>  Yes I am the same person.  Most of the time, I don't like to get involved in 168 since majority the discussions here are uncivil.  Hoever, I do enjoy to discuss with someone like you though. <o:p></o:p>  I am an independent, fiscal conservative and socially liberal guy. I don't care much about all these "God Loving", anti abortion, gay hater social conservatives. I believe that everyone should be entitled to their freedom as long as their freedom no infringed with other people's rights. So you can love your God, but don't tell everyone else to do so with you. <o:p></o:p>  On the fiscal issue, I think government should only tax people for minimal government functions and shouldn't involve in social engineering where they take from one group of people and favor the other group of people. <o:p></o:p>  As I said, the government's responsibility is to create laws and regulations so that everyone can compete fairly. However, government shouldn't correct the outcome by forcing the winners to pay for the losers as long as the winners play it fairly. The government can also create an environment which encourage the winners to help the losers VOLUNTARILY through non government ways. <o:p></o:p>  In terms of Obama and Romney, I don't like either one. I voted for Obama in 2008 since he promised that he will cut the deficit in half. But he disappointed me with irresponsible fiscal policies. So I am going to vote him out. If Romney does the same in next four years, I will vote him out too until we found someone like Clinton. <o:p></o:p>  I am sure the country has learned a lesson from Iraq. Neither one of them will go into war as freely as Bush. So the risk is small for another war like Iraq. Romney does have some business experience especially rescue a failed business. Actually, I like his running mate Paul Ryan the best since he at lease honestly talking about our fiscal issues. It may cost him vote, but it is the right thing to do. We really need a honest discussion about our country's fiscal condition before it is too late like Greece.  We should do it for our children and our grandchildren. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

一剪梅发布于 2012-09-26 05:11 16 楼^#

To 17楼:   Are you the same person that disputed with me on my other posting "<A href="http://www.atlanta168.com/forum/read.php?tid=12282">What If Gore Won the Election in Year 2000?</A> "? Do you have an ID? Why don't you use your ID to dispute with me? I like your rational, level-headed way of discussion? It would be more fun if I know your ID.   By the way, your English is excellent!   If the raised tax can only be used to pay off the debt, then we don't have to worry about the raised tax being abused.   Rominey's war expense can be more expensive than Bush's or Obama combined. Not sure which evil is lesser evil. If you ask me, I would rather spend on the lazy losers than spending on killing middle eastern people with missles, guns,

游客 IP:12.250.185.* 发布于 2012-09-26 03:44 15 楼^#

to 一剪梅,   Great.  At least we have something to agree on.  However, I will not raise taxes withoug a balance budget amendament.  You know that once taxes are raised, our politicians will find a way to spend it instead of paying off the debt.  So we should vote everyone of them who over spend out of office.  it was Republic's turn in 2008. and it is Obama's turn this time!  If he has four more years, our deficit will go over $20 trillion!!!

一剪梅发布于 2012-09-25 21:06 14 楼^#

to 16 楼：     I totally agree with you. Cut government spending, have two year temporary tax raise for now to just pay off the debt. Rich people should share more responsibility of paying off the debt. After all, they benefited the most from the mideast oli wars, Bush tax cuts and they have the money to pay back their benefits. The poor people benefited from the governement spending too, but they have no moeny to pay.

游客 IP:67.191.132.* 发布于 2012-09-25 18:33 13 楼^#

to 一剪梅,   The best way to reduce our deficit is not raise tax, but cut spending, especially wasteful spending.  See the other post I have for publich employee's pension benefit.  I am sure you wish to have that kind of retirement.  But it will you and me paying for it.  So wake up, government is not your solution, it is your problem!   once our government cut it's spending significantly, such as 20-30%, then I am willing to raise tax rates (same to everyone) which can only be used to pay off our $16 trillion debt.  once that's paidoff, the tax rate should be reduced immediatly.

游客 IP:67.191.132.* 发布于 2012-09-25 18:25 12 楼^#

to 一剪梅,   I DON'T think the current tax code is fair.  it is not fair to high wage earners.  low income families don't pay any taxes and have no skin in the game.  They only want to get more from the system and will elect politicions who is willing to spend our money to buy votes.  investment income is taxed at much lower tax rate compare to ordinary income.  That's why a fair tax will fix it.  Everyone no matter what income level pays for the same tax rate.  No deductions what's so ever.   for the same tax rate, it is true that 1% reduction of tax rate will give the high income family more back.  But, this is America, we shouldn't purnish sucess.   why should success people to pay more for our irresponsible government spending?  I am all for more taxes to payoff our debt.  But it should cut spending at 20 to 30% before any taxes should be increased.   there is misunderstanding in SS tax.  any high income people pays the same amount once it is over $100+k.  However, they will get the same SS pay check too.  so rich doesn't get a penny more in SS check then any of us.   It is true that SS check payout is tilted toward low income.  For every dollar SS tax, lower income earners get more than high income earners.  You can study IRS publications to learn the details. When I say high income, I mean $70k - $110k since anything over that are considered the same for SS benefit. So I am not saying you are taking them away from Romeny, but the lower income family taking it from you. or we are taking it from our children and grandchildren since no matter how you slice it, we didn't pay enough to pay for our share of medicare and SS.  Our children is going to pay for us and they may not get anything back!

一剪梅发布于 2012-09-25 17:49 11 楼^#

回11楼： 1。十五万年薪和rominey 的一千三百万年收入根本不是一个数量级，别自我抬高把自己想象成他那样的富人跟着患“交税痛”。他降税省一百万，你省一千，跟着瞎掺和什末？   2。十五万年薪的家庭交20%联帮税，一千三百万年收入的交14%的联帮税，你觉得公平吗？   3。我愤愤不平的不是拿47%不交联帮税的人和Rominey 比，而是拿我们中国人十五万年收入的家庭和Rominey比。一千三百万是十五万的一百倍，凭什麽他该少交税？   4。你为什末眼睛老盯着那没油水的47%穷光蛋，而放过一千三百万的人群？把一千三百万收入的人的税减下来了，更大的财政窟窿谁去填？还不是十五万年收入的人去填？你以为那47% 不交税的人会去帮填？用脚都能想得出来的道理。你去使劲帮一千三百万年收入的人喊交税痛，你二百五啊？所以这阶级矛盾不是47%对1%，而是象咱们老中这样的中产阶级对Rominey这样的巨富。穷人不成为咱们的负担就谢天谢地了，还能指望他们来分担财政窟窿？   5。社会安全只有收入在十一万多以下那部分才扣除，以上部分全免。所以Rominey 机本上可以说没交社会安全保险。不存在我们分他一份的问体3。我将来退休拿的是我自己二三十年交进去的，我没拿别人的。你没交齐倒多拿那是你，请别代表我，拜托！

游客 IP:67.191.132.* 发布于 2012-09-25 17:09 10 楼^#

Another problem with the supporters of deficit spending is to look at our public employees retirement liability.  no one is talking about it, but you and I will have to pay for it!!   Average age of public employee retirement = 60 Average lifespan of public employee = 83 Average yearly public employee pension payout = $40,000 Average total retirement plan payout (guaranteed wealth) of public employee = $920,000   In suburban NY, cops retire with pensions of $60,000 to $80,000 by age 43, so they collect even longer, say 40 years $70,000 per year plus health care benefits, they are clearly worth $3 million each in top 5% in terms hidden wealth or OUR LIABILITY!!   So, we need cut our government spending and cut all these public employees pension plan and health care plans!  unfortunately, their Union wil support Obama to keep spend our tax payer's money!!

游客 IP:67.191.132.* 发布于 2012-09-25 17:01 9 楼^#

To Dr. Liu, It is sounds unfair that Mr. Romney only pay 14% tax. A flat tax will make sure everyone pay the same percentage of the tax. However, something needs to be clarified, I think media is trying to confuse people since tax law is quite complicated and everyone can use it to their political advantages. THERE ARE about half of the populations don't pay federal income taxes. it is not accurate to say some of them are paying more taxes than Romney. you can only do that by including payroll tax. However, most poor working class will get all their payroll tax back plus extra when they retire. High income (may not be rich if they spend all) earners will get less back than they pay into the system. So payroll tax shouldn't be included in tax calculation. It is actually a wealth distribution, or worse a Ponzi scheme, from high wage earners to low wage earners and from young generation to old generation. According to this article, most rich people in this country are self made. They just work harder and smarter than us. So why should they pay more tax then we do, in fact, they already pay a lot more then we do on average (don't use a few isolated cases to generalize). http://www.joshuakennon.com/the-hierarchy-of-the-rich-in-the-united-states/ "The most encouraging part of the story is that 80% to 90% of these ruling families are self-made, meaning they created their fortune themselves and didn’t inherit it. That is why I constantly harp on the fact that the United States is the greatest meritocracy the world has ever known despite our flaws." So it is quite true that most of us has a fair chance in this country to become rich. You just have to work harder and smater. By the way, from this article: http://www.joshuakennon.com/the-new-elite-a-look-in-the-top-1-percent-of-wealth-in-the-united-states/ the top 1% are: "For every 100 new elite members in the United States: The average age is 47 years old 90 to 95 made the money themselves; only 5 to 10 inherited it 90 are college graduates; 10 are not For those who are college graduates, 3 out of 4 did not attend an Ivy League school 8 are Asian (defined including those from Indian subcontinent); nearly 3x the rate found in the population 96 do not own a yacht; 4 do 50 haven’t furnished their homes in any way that would reflect their economic status" if you house hold income is $$157,176 , you are quite rich (top 5%). I think most our Chinsee families who have a college degree and dual income are in this category. Congratulation, you are paying more than half of our country's tax burden! So enjoy it while you can. Your tax rate is going up so that we can support all our deficit spending and all these free loaders.

Dr.OlympiaLiu 发布于 2012-09-25 12:37 8 楼^#

据美国媒体24日报道，美国共和党总统候选人罗姆尼公开去年的报税资料后，民主党多名主要人物纷纷批评，罗姆尼的税率低于一般国民，而且在个人税务以至国家税制上言词闪烁，欠公众一个说法，也证明共和党漠视普通民众。共和党则回击说，国家经济才是真正议题，民主党不应混淆视听。<o:p></o:p> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="left" style="background-color: rgb(238, 242, 246); "><tbody><tr><td width="306" style="padding: 0in; width: 229.5pt; "></td></tr></tbody></table>从前总统克林顿、白宫前发言人吉布斯到现任白宫高级顾问艾克斯罗德，民主党多名人物23日亮相各大电视台的访谈节目时，都把焦点放在罗姆尼的税率上。<o:p></o:p> 　　克林顿在CBS电视台的《面对全国》节目中说，如果像罗姆尼这样的富人只需交税13、14%，国家将难以走出现在的财政困局，他又建议总统奥巴马，不要延续小布什减税案中对富裕阶层的税务优惠，否则白宫会自缚手脚，难以在预算谈判上争取合理结果。对于大选形势，克林顿形容奥巴马正占了上风，虽然支持罗姆尼及共和党的超级政治行动委员会大洒金钱，支出将是奥巴马阵营的两倍半至三倍，但奥巴马仍在摇摆州领先。<o:p></o:p> 　　白宫顾问艾克斯罗德接受ABC电视台访问时表示，罗姆尼早前在筹款活动上批评47%的国民依赖政府，但事实是这47%国民中，不少人的税率比罗姆尼还要高。白宫前发言人吉布斯在福克斯电视台节目中则说，国民有权进一步了解罗姆尼的财政状况，罗姆尼在个人税务以至国家税制上都遮遮掩掩，事实是他一旦当选并推行税制构思的话，只会为像他这样的富人减税。

BlueSky 发布于 2012-09-24 14:04 7 楼^#

<div style="text-align: center;">I agree with  一剪梅. Another thing is that, a lot of homeowners are enjoying those re-financing programs with much lower interest rates or first-time buyer credits which Romney simply won't do. Although I am not one of the beneficiaries.</div>

游客 IP:12.250.185.* 发布于 2012-09-24 12:40 6 楼^#

Even with the wars and the tax cut, deficit in Bush 8 yeares are still about half of Obama 4 years.  He over spend over $5 trillion.  Even with Fed printing a few trillion dollars to reduce our government's borrowing cost.    So Obama's goal is over spend, wealth distribution and socialism which will kill the American dream.  American system should reward people who is succesful, not punish them and take their earnings away!

polarbear 发布于 2012-09-24 08:36 5 楼^#

关键是 FM95.5 听得太多了。

游客 IP:209.194.10.* 发布于 2012-09-24 08:07 4 楼^#

还有就是教育落后的地方，比如我们Georgia，都是铁杆GOP支持者。作为Georgian，我们很自豪我们的教育水平在全美排第二（从后面数），而且我们成功的抵制了达尔文的自由化。

Dr.OlympiaLiu 发布于 2012-09-24 08:05 3 楼^#

路透社19日称，有关罗姆尼的一则“失言视频”17日被曝光。罗姆尼在竞选活动中称，奥巴马的支持者们———47%的美国人“不缴纳个人所得税”，还视自己为“受害者”，觉得自己“应该享受医疗、食品、住房等一切你能说得出的福利”。<o:p></o:p> 　　出身金融界的罗姆尼一番“嫌贫”言论，不仅被奥巴马阵营抓住机会，批评他“藐视穷人”，还引发共和党的政治风暴。一些共和党支持者将罗姆尼描述成“嘲笑人的富豪”，称他的话将半数美国人描绘成“怀有敌意的寄生虫”，从而“剥夺了自己争取总统职位的资格”。<o:p></o:p> 　　美国媒体也抨击罗姆尼的失言，美国彭博新闻社政治评论员乔希·巴罗的回应很直率：“罗姆尼输掉了大选。”美国《华盛顿邮报》认为，罗姆尼失言视频的曝光是罗姆尼竞选活动最黑暗的一日。美国杂志《时尚先生》和美国雅虎网公布的最新民调结果显示，3/4的美国人称与罗姆尼“没有共同点”。

一剪梅发布于 2012-09-24 08:03 2 楼^#

The most I'm afraid of Romney is if he sends more troops to mideast and start another war with Iran. We're defintely going down hell.   Obama may give the lazy bum lots of free candies too. But comparing with another mideast war, or multiple wars, the financial damage and personal safety threat from further angered terrists are much worse, and keep me awake a lot more than what the losers may eat off my taxes for free

Zorro 发布于 2012-09-24 07:06 1 楼^#

钱只是因素之一，不是最关键因素。关键是宗教/意识形态。中西部虽穷，但在宗教上与共和党相合。而且东西海岸虽富，但大多数选民仍然是中产。